Posts by aligot ripounsous

56

What To Say When Someone Says "If U Can Find A Religion That's Better......

by minimus in

jw
friends

"if you can find a religion that's better than jehovah's witnesses, let me know where i can find it".....i've heard jws say this in defense of "the truth" that they know is not 100% right.. what would you say to a witness that suggests that jehovah's witnesses are still better than all the others???

?.

aligot ripounsous

Jesus condemned those that tried to BIND others with heavy loads.

This is why I make a difference between the set of beliefs which JWs are proponents of, and that, IMO, can understandably appeal to some people, who are not all ignorants or easily influenced, and an organization which nobody can deny is stifling to the freedom lover and independent thinker. I agree that trying to keep balance between those two opposite opinions is quite awkward, I suppose it's part of some people's (mine for one) makeup.

the best religion already exists within each of us!

I agree, RC, in that we eventually believe what we want to, but, on the other hand, religion is not only beliefs but also morals. I think that one of the main reasons why some people elect to comply with religious standards, and choose to limit their feedom in doing so, is that they feel the need (I do) to be accountable to a superior authority, so that moral standards will impose themselves to them as originating from that authority, and these people won't be tempted to tailor those standards to suit their varying experiences. That limitation is part of what gives significance to life because it makes humans feel that not all ways of life are equal and that some are "better" (again...) than others.

In addition,religious moral standards provide order in the human society since they are common to the members of a group and these members will be found more predictable in their conduct and, therefore, more reliable. That's why, in the end, JWs engage so often in business within the congregation and also why many will seek marriage partners among JWs although they, themselves may be quite critical toward this religion.

56

What To Say When Someone Says "If U Can Find A Religion That's Better......

by minimus in

jw
friends

"if you can find a religion that's better than jehovah's witnesses, let me know where i can find it".....i've heard jws say this in defense of "the truth" that they know is not 100% right.. what would you say to a witness that suggests that jehovah's witnesses are still better than all the others???

?.

aligot ripounsous

Right, as a still nominal (inactive) JW, I'll try to define "better", i.e. the pieces of creed that JWs taught me, which I found suitable enough for me to adopt them (wasn't born with them) to frame MY truth (can't say anything about absolute truth because it's beyond my reach, I like the phrase "the WAY of the truth) : one unique god, has a name, no trinity, makes us know what He wants us to know about Him through the Bible, in which BTW there are ununderstandable prophecies, Jesus' ransom sacrifice, no hell, the 2 classes convey the satisfying idea that God wants to associate humankind to the fulfilment of His design, yes paradise earth is a nice prospect, it will be even nicer once Jehovah has answered all the interrogation marks that lace it. Anyone has a proposal for a replacement ? Islam & Judaism, please don't apply. I know all too well the serious shortcomings of this religion as an organization, and actually, as with democracy, it's the worst one, apart from all the others (which I know of). Don't tell me that I don't need a religion, I do, unless of course they boot me out.

50

VERY BAD NEWS...my son is going to Bethel............

by oompa in

jw
friends

i can not describe the sadness of hearing him tell me, i asked him to think about what a great part time job he has, with free schooling.

he says they will probably take him back.

his abilities are suitable for closing down brooklyn, so at least he will be there (i love nyc).

aligot ripounsous

Oompa,

This thread is a good test to know if JWD is WT monitored. I don't know to what extent you want to remain anonymous but, IMO, you have already said enough on this thread to be identified. In a context where there is hardly any new intake of bethelites, the new-comer -who-has-an-ability- to get-the-Brooklin-business-liquidated should be easily identified and, therefore, his father.

27

"Special" Talk Outline for this Sunday?

by Mrs. Witness in

last night hubby told me that his brother (an elder) told him how "provocative" the outline for this sunday's special talk is.

apparently it's something like "who is qualified to rule mankind" and goes on about how government is not qualified.

he then asked me if i'd like to attend (ha ha).

aligot ripounsous

the limitations of the populace

So much for democracy, from which facilities the WTS has hugely benefited . If democratic values are not good enough for the WTS, let it establish its headquarters in North Korea, China or Iran. Saudi Arabia is not bad either.

Evidence that he has taken power and begun ruling in heaven is abundant (bh 84-95)

THIS is where they slyly introduce a new point , as Alpaca pointed out : no mention at all of 1914, the speaker can just as well skip it since he has to cling to these outlines. Such an occulting in a talk outline would plainly have been unimaginable 15 years ago. That way, they will safely be able to "recall" later on that, as the FDS has already clearly explained earlier, there is no ground for being "dogmatic" about 1914.

Reminds me of what I was saying to an elder last Sunday : just overnight, they can drop 1914, saying Oops, we made a small mistake, 1914 was computed on the basis of 360 day years (2520 years stuff), whereas the 70 weeks in the other prophecy of Daniel were computed with good and sound 365 day years. Sorry for that, we are NOW going to teach you what is the REAL beginning of the last days, etc. And believe it or else !

11

JWs' children, in a covenant relationship to Jah like the Jews ?

by aligot ripounsous in

last sunday, after the meeting, i had an interesting conversation with an elder, who asked me, among other things, how my 2 teen children are faring, because he noticed that they don't attend meetings anymore.

i replied that they are fine and, as far as meetings are concerned, they are of age to choose their own ways.

i said that their being jws' children doesn' t put them, before jehovah, in a special position.

aligot ripounsous

Thanks, R.C. I take it as a compliment as I appeciate your poetic language, even though it's not always easy to follow for a foreigner !

11

JWs' children, in a covenant relationship to Jah like the Jews ?

by aligot ripounsous in

last sunday, after the meeting, i had an interesting conversation with an elder, who asked me, among other things, how my 2 teen children are faring, because he noticed that they don't attend meetings anymore.

i replied that they are fine and, as far as meetings are concerned, they are of age to choose their own ways.

i said that their being jws' children doesn' t put them, before jehovah, in a special position.

aligot ripounsous

Perry,

I came yesterday across one of those manipulative literacy devices in the book "the day of Jehovah". It could be a topic for another thread and I will take time to write it. I come back later on that.

11

JWs' children, in a covenant relationship to Jah like the Jews ?

by aligot ripounsous in

last sunday, after the meeting, i had an interesting conversation with an elder, who asked me, among other things, how my 2 teen children are faring, because he noticed that they don't attend meetings anymore.

i replied that they are fine and, as far as meetings are concerned, they are of age to choose their own ways.

i said that their being jws' children doesn' t put them, before jehovah, in a special position.

aligot ripounsous

Last Sunday, after the meeting, I had an interesting conversation with an elder, who asked me, among other things, how my 2 teen children are faring, because he noticed that they don't attend meetings anymore. I replied that they are fine and, as far as meetings are concerned, they are of age to choose their own ways. I said that their being JWs' children doesn' t put them, before Jehovah, in a special position. They are not, like Israelite children, in a covenant relationship by birth and their happening to be born in a JW family doesn't give them any special merit to be spared at A. Instead, like all humans, JWs' children are accountable for their own deeds (mind, my kids' are not so bad).

So far nothing revolutionary, this position looks the only sensible one and it is fairly in line with the WTS stand. I then pointed out that western congregations, in terms of gathering Jehovah's people, have gathered mainly (part of) their own kids and we shouldn't hear statements like nowadays JWs' children form the core of tomorrow congregations, because the preaching work is supposed to result in the ingathering of people from outside. Now, and quite typically I think, such JWs' children compose almost half of my congregation.

I added that I had become a JW at age past 30 and I was expecting my children to think thoroughly about the personal choice they would make in religious matters, without undergoing group pressure in their teen age. Besides, the level of information of any person who considers becoming a JW is quite different now from what it used to be 30 years ago, due to the internet, at least in developed countries. I said that I wasn't sure I would have adhered, had I then known that the WTS had once taught that Behemoth and Leviathan were locomotives, whatever they would teach now, and I'm quite certain that all sensible persons will doubt that the author of such nonsense (I didn't dare say "ever") had Jehovah's spirit.

The elder couldn't but agree on this opinion. So, I added, if you can question the WTS authors of those past days, you can rightly sift what they teach now through the filter of critical mind. By then, the elder had gone past his agreement limit. He answered, as expected, that Jehovah's organization is composed of imperfect men. I don't amplify on what followed, may I just say that I could see in his eyes something like a notification to continue the conversation in front of a few more elders...

39

What the Hades is going on at the local Kingdom Hall?

by AK - Jeff in

the kh that i attended has always held it's meetings on sunday morning, and still does.

even on the days when the co visits there are normally only a handful of cars left in the parking lot after 3 pm, as the co typically quits service and heads home by 3 or 4, and besides, if you are not in his group it is usually 'take a few doors, count an hour, and get home in time to watch the game' attitude.

so today i drive by after work - it is 4 pm when i pass the kingdom hall, and the damned parking lot is just packed - maybe 45 or 50 cars in the lot.

aligot ripounsous

By all means, feel free to push the door in and get in, meetings are open to the public, no collect. At least the first visit is free, just afterwards will it turn more expensive.

64

Bye-Bye Brooklyn....were OUTTA there! Real Estate news.

by oompa in

jw
friends

i was told today by a heavyweight elders wife, both of whom were at bethel for many years and are very well connected to the brooklyn brass, that all brooklyn bethel operations will be moved to wallkill and patterson.

in fact, there is a very exclusive walk-through next week for some of the top real estate investors/developers who will see all the properties, starting with the sands, and its lobby has now been remodeled to look just like a high-end hotel..................just fyi.................................oompa

aligot ripounsous

But what the heck are they going to do with all that money ? I mean, guessing what these spotless buildings are worth in that area, the few million dollars they have incurred in recent lawsuits will be but drops from their bucket and I read somewhere that Patterson facilities are already paid for.

19

The Watchtower trembles before appostates.

by edmond dantes in

instead of disfellowshipping for appostacy why don't the witlesses just tell the so called apostates, it's ok ,just don't disrupt the meetings.if they did this would there be less hassle all round.

other organisations have different allied sections but the whacktower org.

isn't strong enough to embrace dissent , it stands on very shaky ground as regard doctrine and practice.in fact they don't know the first thing about good practice they need a suggestion box in the kingdumb hall for a start and a few lessons in democracy wouldn't go amiss.all dictatorships are afraid of the voice of the people.

aligot ripounsous

this illustrates the need for a seperate box in which the brothers and sisters can fully vent their thoughts.

Mao tse Toung did that trick back around 1958, he called that the hundred flowers episode. All opposers were encouraged to express themselves freely. Soon aftewars they were cracked down upon and a terrible repression ensued.